Harry HYNDMAN [????-????] | Gwulo: Old Hong Kong

Harry HYNDMAN [????-????]

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Submitted by belz on Wed, 2010-09-15 03:54
Names
Given: 
Harry
Family: 
Hyndman
Sex: 
Male
Status: 
Deceased

Would anyone know about a Harry Hyndman during 1946.  His name is mentioned in HK Sunday Herald of 8th September, 1946.  He was sentenced to 2 years imprisonment for activities during the war !  He worked at the Hongkong Shanghai Bank.

I am a  Hyndmans but my records show no Harry (or Henry).  He was said to be 55 at the time.

I am trying to find out if he was from my family and where he fits in.

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Comments

Submitted by Adam on Wed, 2010-09-15 10:56.

There is an unusually large number of Hyndmans listed in the Carl Smith Collection here: http://www.grs.gov.hk/PRO/srch/english/sys_carlsmith.jsp?language=english

They seem to have been mostly Portuguese/Macanese/Eurasian judging from the names. There's a Henrique Hyndman listed but at a glance he seems to have been too old to be your man. You would need to go to the HK Public Records Office to find more details for these entries.

Submitted by Ho Lim-peng (not verified) on Wed, 2010-09-15 14:04.

Members of the prominent Portuguese-Dutch-Malay-Chinese Hong Kong Eurasian Lobo family, formerly of Timor and Macau, often carry Hyndman as a Christian name. That might provide a useful starting point, as I am sure the family lineage would be known in detail.   

Submitted by David on Wed, 2010-09-15 22:08.

Often people from that time appear in one of Tony Banham's lists. I can see a couple of entries named Hyndman, but not the one you mentioned.

Have you tried looking at jurors lists for 1940-1? Not much information, but might confirm he was here pre-war.

Do you know if any other members of your family were in HK around that time?

Regards, David

Submitted by Adam on Wed, 2010-09-15 23:13.

Henry Hyndman is on the Jury Lists for 1941, 40 and 39. I didn't go back any further. There are a couple of other Hyndmans on there too, one of whom worked for Thomas Cook.

Submitted by Adam on Wed, 2010-09-15 23:34.

I just checked the abovementioned issue of the HK Sunday Herald. It seems Henry Hyndman was given two years for collaborating with the Japs during the war. The sentence seems to have been passed a bit reluctantly though. A search through The China Mail for that week might turn up a bit more. The fact that Hyndman may have been out and about and in Hong Kong during the war again suggests a Macanese, Portuguese or other neutral passport holder. Could be an interesting story.

EDIT: Just found a longish story in The China Mail. Seems he was in fact HK born and bred, and interned at Stanley, but given special privileges to move about outside the prison, etc. Full story is on Page 4 of The China Mail of September 4, 1946. He was 55 in 1946 and had worked at the Bank, which took his side in court, for 38 years.

Submitted by belz on Thu, 2010-09-16 04:14.

Would you please let me have the link to the China Mail.  I am not very good at finding these items on the internet.

Thank you so much for what you found, it, more or less confirms what I suspected and I now know which great uncle it is. 

If you do not want to post it on site, you could email me at belzm@aol.com

Many thanks, Adam.

Belz

Submitted by belz on Thu, 2010-09-16 04:22.

In answer to Ho Lim-peng:

Mr. P. J. Lobo from Macau married my great Aunt, Branca Hyndman and they had the present Lobo family that you still see in Hongkong.  The Lobo's are all my cousins. 

You are right in saying Mr. Lobo originated in Timor.  The Hyndmans, we have now traced back to Scotland from where they originated, possibly in Ayrshire and Rensfrewshire.

Thank you for your help.

Submitted by belz on Thu, 2010-09-16 04:26.

We were mostly all in Hongkong, Macau and Shanghai at that time, David.

Being such a large family, it is really difficult to know where everyone was at the time.

I have just last week found another cousin whom we lost during the war.  Unfortunately, he died in 2008 but his daughter telephoned me from Australia because she was looking for her father's family and I was greatly surprised to find out her father was this very same cousin we have been looking for.

Thank you for your help, David.

Submitted by Adam on Thu, 2010-09-16 09:42.

Belz - just go here http://hkclweb.hkpl.gov.hk/hkclr2/internet/eng/html/frm-bas_srch.html and then select 'Old HK Newspaper' and select 'Content' from the dropdown. Then type in 'Hyndman' in the search field. You should get 23 results come up. Just click on each, one by one, and you will be given access to the relevant issue, with an asterisk next to the page you want.

Further info on searching old HK newspapers is available freom David, here: http://gwulo.com/old-hong-kong-newspapers

regards,

Adam

Submitted by belz on Thu, 2010-09-16 16:35.

That was great, Adam.  I have the story now.  Thank you for showing me how to get into the site.

Regards,  Belz

Submitted by David on Thu, 2010-09-16 18:40.

Belz, Sounds like you've got quite a project! For more information about your great-uncle, you might want to ask over on the Stanley Camp group.

Submitted by belz on Fri, 2010-09-17 02:41.

Hi David:

You dont know the half of it !   I have got my mom's account, the Soares' family account sent to me by the younger son before he died, and now I find out this story about "Harry" is the third piece of the puzzle. 

I am going to get permission from the families before I put up a web page about this.  It will take some time, but I will post the URL here as soon as it is done.

That is, if everyone agrees.................or I could disguise names.  I dont really want to do that though.

Submitted by David on Sun, 2010-09-19 13:41.

Belz, Fingers crossed you get the ok to publish what you find. Unfortunately these projects can stir up strong emotions among family members, so often these family histories never make it out to public view.

If you do publish. please do let us know the URL. Or you're welcome to publish it here if you don't have any website. Or as a mix you can use us for research, but show the finished story elsewhere - see Sean Olson's project for an example of how that works.

Regards, David

Submitted by belz on Sun, 2010-11-21 05:56.

I have been off in dream land again, David.  Sorry I did not reply to your very kind offer of help and invite to publish here.   I will let you know.  You are very kind.

I am just waiting for some news from a friend who will be with the group meeting up in Hongkong and Macau in the next 2 weeks.   I should be ready to do something after that, provided I get a little more confirmation that this is my great uncle.

Please feel free to email me at the aol address if I neglect to respond, that just means I could not find this entry.  I came upon it by accident tonight.

I'll be back - as some great actor once said. Hah !

Belz

Submitted by David on Mon, 2010-11-22 15:34.

Good luck with your meeting, and fingers crossed we'll get to hear the results of it.

Regards, David

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Tue, 2011-03-22 22:26.

HK Archivist File HKPolice Court case file no. 30/1946 Rex vs Harry Hyndman Sect (missing) No. GR108/2566/1946.  hope this is helpful.  francesca

 

Submitted by belz on Thu, 2011-03-24 02:53.

Can you please let me have the link to the above case file?   I have no idea how to get to it.   Been looking where the HK news papers are, but could find nothing.  However, I did find out that the Harry Hyndman I am researching is not my Great Uncle, but a cousin.  He made a statement in court and said he was a "single" man.  My Great uncle was definitely married.  I will try and trace him in our family tree.

We had quite a line of Henrique Hyndmans on our "direct" line, so this gentleman must have been named after the original Henriques but nicknamed "Harry".

It is good that you sent me on a quest and I found this out, just about 1/2 an hour ago.

Belz

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Tue, 2011-05-24 19:19.

Hi, Belz.

You mentioned the Soares family on your mother's side. Is this the same Soares family that is descended from Dr. Francisco de Paulo Soares (1825-1907) of the Oriental Dispensary?

GC

Submitted by belz on Wed, 2011-05-25 18:26.

I will enquire from my cousins.  They may or may not know, but I suspect it must be.  The reason I say this is because my baptismal Godfather was F.X. Soares, and his first name was Francisco. 

May I ask where you saw Dr. Francisco de Paulo Soares mentioned?  I may try going into the site that one or the Macanese has.  It is a closed site that requires a password.  It is a very confusing site and I can hardly find anything, but I will try.   I will post here if I find anything. 

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Wed, 2011-05-25 23:16.

Hi, Belz.

I am researching family history and have information gleaned from the Carl Smith Collection.

Francisco de Paulo Soares was born on 4 Jan 1825, baptised on 17 Jan. of the same year, and died on 23 March 1907. He was  the son of Francisco Soares and Angela Vicencia Ozorio. He married Iria Joaquina da Silva, daughter of Eusebio Jose da Silva and Maria Theresa.

Francisco de Paulo Soares and Angela had 4 children:

- Felicidade Perpetua Soares,

- Alfredo Francisco Soares,

- Alfredo Francisco de Jesus Soares and

- Francisco Eusebio da Luz Soares.

Good luck and thanks,

GC

Submitted by belz on Thu, 2011-05-26 02:16.

Hi GC

I have had a look at the Macanese site.   I cannot see a connection.  I have followed my Soares family back and it looks like this.

Lino Soares   : Helena de Paula

Jose Soares   : Atanasia de Pereira

Jose Soares   : Ana Campos

Jose Soares   : Luisa Place

and one step back brings us to where the family took their mother's surname of Soares and disregarded the father's surname.  This happens in my family too.  It was something they used to do apparently.  I have no idea why they disregarded their father's side of the family.   It is very difficult to follow this site, so I may have it wrong.

Submitted by belz on Thu, 2011-05-26 02:19.

GC - I can see why you think it is the same family.   You have Francisco married Angela and mine are the same names.  The difference is that my Angela was my great Aunty and she was born as Angela Hyndman daughter of Henrique Hyndman.

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Fri, 2011-05-27 01:02.

Thanks for checking.

Is this website where you did the search for Macanese only or does it include Portuguese living in Macao/Hong Kong? And how can researchers access it, if at all?

GC

Submitted by belz on Sun, 2011-05-29 01:35.

I was afraid you would ask me about this.    I think the purpose of the site is to record as many Macanese families on it and in doing so, we each go into the site and have permission to adjust any mistakes or add any births or deaths to update the site. 

I am afraid it is not a public site.  You more or less have to be related to get into it.

Submitted by moddsey on Sun, 2011-05-29 08:41.

Don't know if it is still available but the last time I browsed the Government Bookshop in Macao there was a three volume book of the genealogy of Portuguese/Macanese families with the captioned title.

Submitted by annelisec on Sun, 2011-05-29 16:00.

The following piece by Henry (Quito) d'Assumpção first appeared in the September 2008 Casa Downunder Newsletter

I am pleased to report that the entire database (now with some 44,500 people) is in a (draft) restricted website; it can be accessed by using a password. I am not sure at this stage how the passwords will be managed all over the world: at present I am giving access only to individuals but shall be writing to the various clubs – Casa de Macau, UMA, Lusitano Club, etc. – to see if some arrangement can be made. If you are a financial member of one of the Macanese Clubs and are interested in collaborating or gaining access to the website, please contact your local Club.

more at

http://www.casademacau.org.au/history/geneaology.htm

 

Submitted by annelisec on Sat, 2011-08-20 11:26.

Was Dr. Francisco de Paulo Soares Chinese name LAM Fai Wing?

Was he the fellow described in Eric Peter Ho's book as, Edith Lo's grandfather, a chemist from Portugal, who ran a dispensary in Hong Kong ?

Submitted by gdaroza on Sun, 2011-10-16 09:54.

Hello Belz,

I just came across this conversation thread and like to ask a question. Did Branca Hyndman have a sister by the name of Consuelo Hyndman. I remember a Consuelo Hyndman. At that time I was living in Macau. She tutored me after school and the houseboy from the Lobo family across the road would deliver afternoon tea everyday. After I returned to Hong Kong we lost contact. If you know what happened to her can you please tell me. Thanks. 

Submitted by belz on Sun, 2012-05-13 03:07.

I am sorry this question went unnoticed.   Yes Consuelo was my Great Aunt.  She was known to the family as Naning. 

If you would like to contact me on belzm@aol.com, I will be happy to respond.

Again, so sorry this went unanswered.

To DAVID

Is there anyway you could make contact with this member and bring her attention to my email address.   Thank you so much.

 

Submitted by C on Sun, 2012-05-13 11:16.

Hi belz,

I just come across your posts about the Lobo family.  Would you mind pointing me to a good English biography of Dr. Pedro José Lobo?  I have not been able to find much about him written in English.

Also, was his son Sir Rogerio Hyndman Lobo the head of Macao Electric Lighting Company Ltd. in the 1960s?

Thanks!

Submitted by belz on Sun, 2012-05-13 16:54.

Hello, C :

My Uncle was a very learned gentleman.  I think you are right and he wrote, was very interested in music and played the violin.   However, I know nothing about a biography.  I will try and find out for you.   I doubt it would be in English though.

Sir Roger was, I think, head of the Macau Electric Co., then his younger brother Pedro took over, if I am not mistaken.   I can check for you.

Give me a couple of days and I will post back here.

Submitted by Admin on Sun, 2012-05-13 17:29.

I have just sent them an email.

regards, David

Submitted by C on Sun, 2012-05-13 22:11.

Thank you, belz!

I was in the Macao Museum several years ago, and there was a short clip of music composed by Dr. Lobo available (through a small speaker or earphones ) to the visitors.  I also read about pieces of his music being played at noon every day on Radio Villa Verde that he founded.  I look forward to knowing more about him.

Submitted by belz on Tue, 2012-05-15 03:18.

As always, David, thank you for your prompt help.  

 

Submitted by belz on Tue, 2012-05-15 03:27.

Hi C:

I got a message to Uncle Lobo's youngest daughter and she knew nothing about a biography !  So I think it is safe to say he did not write one.   That does not mean one was not written for him by someone else.

Also Sir Roger worked for Melco, I cannot confirm if he was "the head" of Melco.

Our other cousin, mentioned earlier, Billy Soares, from the HKSB, during the war, also worked for Melco.  

 

Submitted by C on Tue, 2012-05-15 20:02.

Thanks again, belz!  Someone should really write about Dr. P. J. Lobo's life.  He was the most powerful person in Macao long before Mr. HO Yin came into the picture.  Would you mind sharing stories of his life with us?  Also, had sheet music or vinyl records of his musical compositions been made available to the public?

Submitted by belz on Tue, 2012-05-29 03:58.

I have only just found out that one of P. J. Lobo's grandsons is a fiction writer.  He has just finished a very well written book.  He would have been too young to remember his grandfather.  Pity.

I am afraid I was only 5 at the time I moved in with Uncle Lobo and family.  My stories would not be of great interest. 

I have read in a book about WW2 and Macau where the author accuses my great Uncle of favouring the Japanese to the Americans.  

My own thoughts on this remain firm that Uncle Lobo would befriend anyone necessary in order to keep his number one priority intact.   That priority was to keep Macau out of the war.  If it were necessary to butter up the Japanese to stop them crossing the border into Macau, he would do this, same with the Americans.

So if you come across this passage, just keep it firmly in your mind that P. J. Lobo's loyalties were to Macau and the safety of all the people living there.

Submitted by cheufay on Fri, 2012-06-01 01:04.

Lam Fai Wing is believed to be Dr. Francisco de Paulo Soares' son. He was therefore Edith Lo's grandfather (not father) while Dr. Soares was Edith's great grandfather.

Lam Fai Wing was Eurasian, born to a Chinese woman (identity unknown).

Whether Dr. Soares himself was mixed-race is also not known, although he came from a family that had lived in Macau since at least the 1800s.

GC

Submitted by jennifer lobo on Tue, 2015-08-18 10:34.

I was reading a book about the history of the Jardine and Matheson Trading Company and  there was a Scotsman named Hyndman who was employed by the trading company and resided in Macau in the mid to late 1800's. I am quite certain that he is somehow related to the Lobo family. It could be that one of his daughters married P. J. Lobo.

Submitted by jennifer lobo on Tue, 2015-08-18 11:00.

When I was quite young I spent time with my Grandfather, P. J. Lobo, every other summer. He was an amateur composer and often broadcast his music from the radio station he operated out of Villa Verde (his house). I would stop by the station frequently as it was in a separate building on his property. There was a man named Rocky who had something to do with music---he may have written/ transcribed the scores. I do have a copy of PJ Lobo's album "Gems of the Orient." 

There was also a large telescope and an observatory on site, as well as an elevator, and a pool. So there were lots of diversions and fun things to play with around the property. All of the family ate together during lunch. We (meaning cousins, aunts and uncles), met in the ante room and entered the dining room only after PJ  was seated at the head of the table. He always dressed in white. 

I believe he made and lost several fortunes in his lifetime. When I knew PJ he was very much involved in the gold trade but, I believe, he also held several governmental positions----one was the Minister of Finance. 

 

 

 

Submitted by C on Wed, 2015-08-19 01:39.

Hi Jennifer,

It is great to have another descendant of Dr. P. J. Lobo on this forum.  As I said a few years ago, not much had been written about him in English.  Does the family have any biographical information on him?

Regarding Villa Verde, it appears that the radio station still exists and was given an FM licence early this year.  It is not known whether broadcasting had resumed.  Its web site seems dormant.  Do you mind sharing some photographs of Villa Verde (house and radio station building), particularly the inside?  Thank you for the information about Dr. Lobo's album.  I thought most of the music he compiled was only broadcasted via radio and was never recorded.  A few clips were played at a display in the Macau Museum when I visited several years ago, but the sound quality was less than ideal.

Submitted by jennifer lobo on Thu, 2015-08-20 01:20.

I do not believe I have any photos of those places. The recording that I have was originally a long playing album, but after his death someone converted the album into a CD. The recording quality is not very good and the compositions do not resonate with me. I can tell you that the floor plan of his house was odd. There were a series of offices along one side of the first floor which resembled a true office building.There were stairs and and a small elevator at the beginning of the office hallway which led to the living quarters upstairs.

When you entered the front door of the house there was a small sitting room with doors that led to the dining room. The dining room was very formal with a rectangular dining table that could accomodate about 22-24 people. One of the nicer parts of the house was the long veranda that ran the length of the sitting room and dining room. The veranda faced two pools which the grand children used frquently.

The upstairs of the house was quite comfortable. There was a large sitting room, really a living room, that led to grand pa's bedroom. Every day we visited avo in the upstairs quarters. Usually he was sitting in his favorite chair in his bedroom. He was a very nice man, always smiling. AS I mentioned earlier everyone ate at grand pa's for lunch. However, all the cousins, aunts and uncles ate dinner at their individual homes. In our case, the dinner food was prepared at Avo's house and brought over to our house. I think he did this for all six houses but I am not sure.

I was told that grand pa built all these structures because he consudered himself to be an architect, composer, astronomer, and business man. I would say his floor plans were unusual.

Submitted by C on Sat, 2015-08-22 12:45.

Hi Jennifer,

Thank you once again for your time and for sharing information about the layout of Villa Verde.  Dr. Lobo seems a multi-talented man!  Is there a chance that you can share his music, e.g. by sending David (webmaster of this web site) some clips, or uploading them on YouTube?

Another question:  Was Sir Rogerio Lobo (son of Dr. Lobo) the boss of Macau Electrical Company (Melco) in the 1960s?  Sir Rogerio was a legislative councillor of Hong Kong and passed away recently.  I wonder how many of Dr. Lobo's descendants still live in Macao today?

Submitted by belz on Mon, 2015-08-24 01:25.

If I am not mistaken, Michele mentioned she had a sister named Jennifer.  If I am right, then, are you one of Orlando's daughters?

The Hyndman you mentioned was Henry Hyndman  He settled in Macau and had a large family.  He too, had a son named Henry, and you, Michele and I are his decendents.  One of his daughters was Branca Hyndman and she married Uncle Lobo.

Marietta, Uncle Lobo's eldest child (not a child of Aunty Branca), was my God mother.   Uncle Lobo never spoke of his life in Timor (I dont know if I have this spelling right).   All we know is that he arrived in a very small boat with Marietta and they settled down to a new life in Macau.   He built up his empire from virtually nothing, so he knew good times and he certainly knew bad times.   He was known to be a very kind, loving man (as I remember him), who would help just about anyone if he knew they needed help.

He was a very stern man too if you stepped out of line, which I did when I lived in Praia Grande with the Lobo family during the war years.   There was a new movie in town, it was called Zorro and the actor, Tyrone Power, bore a strong resemblence to your father. 

I was most impressed with Zorro and put large chalk "Z" on the neighbour's doors.  When you father heard about it, he had an audience with a 6 year old me and handed me a bucket of water, some soap and a brush and instructed me on what to do.

I never forgot that and have never again put "Z" anywhere.

 

Submitted by belz on Mon, 2015-08-24 01:47.

Hi C:

I know that Uncle Lobo's youngest son, the late Pedro Lobo, has a son and a daughter still in Macau.  Unfortunately, Pedro's eldest son, also Pedro, I believe, while living in Macau, died a short while ago.  So I think 2 are still living in Macau.

Submitted by AnthonyClarke on Thu, 2015-10-29 00:28.
He was a relative of mine, I think. Great-Great Uncle or something. There is a lot more to that story that has passed down into family folklore

Submitted by AnthonyClarke on Thu, 2015-10-29 00:35.
I am a direct descendant of the Hong Kong Hyndmans with the Latin forenames. My Great Grandmother was Elia Hyndman Batalha. I think her father was Henrique Hyndman. Henry /Harry Hyndman I think was also a relative. There is a lot of family folklore about him!!! Maybe you and I are related!

Submitted by belz on Mon, 2015-11-02 03:32.

Hi Anthony:    Sometimes, I think I am related to 1/2 the World, especially through my Hyndman connection.  

My Great Great Grand Mother, married to Henrique Hyndman 1828 -1924.  Her name was Elia Pulqueria Calado.  Their son, also Henrique who died in 1932 was my great grandfather.  His eldest son, Francisco, was my Grandfather,   Francisco's (or Paco as he was called) youngest daughter was my mother.

 

Elia's father and mother were:   Antonio Ponciano Calado, and, Maria Micaela Dos Remedios Franco.

Something has gone wrong with Elia's surname, or is this just a coincidence?

Nice meeting you.     Belz

 

Submitted by David on Tue, 2015-11-03 12:19.

Hi Belz,

Just looking back through the older messages in this thread, and you'd mentioned plans to make a webpage about your family. Just wondering if that came about?

Regards, David

Submitted by belz on Thu, 2015-11-05 03:10.

Its been awhile !  How have you been?

Yes, I was encouraged to do somethng on Henry Hyndman by a close friend.  However, I think I told you I had other strings attached to what happened to Henry involving other members of the family.  I have actually never heard of Henry before, I did not know him.  I think he is woven into these other stories by what he did.   I do not have any proof of this, it is only hearsay.   I was hoping to hear back from anyone who had some verifiction of this story.

It is:-

- Set in WW2

- Involving the HKSBank

- Involving Henry (who was a hero)

- Directly involving my  God Father and Uncle, F. X. Soares or the HKSBank

- Highly sensitive documents belonging to the Bank

- and lastly, but not the least of the story, involving my mother's part in this. She was a brave lady and I truly think that if these 3 people had not intervened, the HKSB would not be the bank it is today.

- Uncle Lobo was also a player, but this time, he was the hero in the back ground.

I can verify Uncle Soares' part and my mother's part but not Henry's  part.   I just need that little string to fit in with the story.  

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