In the Web

Sorry, No Olsen:

O'Neill, Norman, 84

Overbeck, Gustav von, 32, 119

And yes, Shyama , I still have your copy and am only just now able to transcribe it to Geni.  Thanks for the extended loan.

(http://www.elizabethsbookshop.com.au/ is on the back).

by the way Sean, I looked up "Ching Ah Fung" on Geni and came up with two trees, and neither is managed by you:

http://www.geni.com/people/Ah-Fung-Jakobsson/6000000003631464023

http://www.geni.com/people/Ching-Ah-Fung-aka-Ellen-Olson/600000001340078...

Sean - During the Japanese occupation of HK I knew a family with the surname Olsen. The father was not present, and had probably left HK before the war.  There were two boys in their early 20s, one of whom was named Alex. Two girls in their late teens were Ellen and Svea.  A third girl named Hilda was about 15, and the youngest in the family was Charlie, aged about 10. Their mother was Korean.

Any relation?

Hi Annelisec, you mention: "Overbeck, Gustav von, 32, 119". How to get these informations? Could not find Overbeck on Geni. He is important to me as Vice-Consul of Prussia in Hong Kong from 1856-1866 and copartner of Dent & Overbeck Company.

for detail - he was a real character: google "baron gustav von overbeck"

Here is my listing for him on Geni:

http://www.geni.com/people/Gustav-von-Overbeck/6000000013491512307

Sean, you most likely already know that John Olson entered the Diocesan Boys' School in 1893, and Charles Wm. Olson entered in 1896. John Olson passed the Junior Oxford Local Examination in 1898 and Charles Wm. in 1901.  Charles Wm. also passed the Hong Kong University Matriculation Examination in 1914.

The school was previously known as the Diocesan Home and Orphanage (from 1869) and took in boys and girls.  Elizabeth A. Olson and Hannah M. Olson entered this school in 1889.

Hi, Jaberu.

Regarding the Diocesan Boys' School entries, I'm curious to know where you got the information. Is it from Rev. W. T. Featherstone's book? From what I understand, the school registers were lost during the Japanese occupation and the only comparable source still available today is Featherstone's, which is kept in the Central Library. I'd like to know if my great grandfather, who was Eurasian, went to school there.

Thanks,

GC

The answer to your question, GC,  is "yes".  Let me know your great grandfather's name and I'll see if I can find it.

Thanks, Jaberu.

As far as I know, he only had Chinese names: Chan Fook Hing as a child and later on Chan Hon Key as a business name. His English surname was Mackenzie/McKenzie. The period would be between 1855 and 1871.

GC

Sorry, GC, but I'm afraid Featherstone's list only goes back as far as 1870.

Sean I also noticed the late 1914 date.  The only explanation I can think of is that he sat the exam as a "mature" student some years after leaving school. The name in the list is C.W.Olson but I don't think there is any doubt this was Charles Wm.

Many of the girls who entered the Diocesan Home and Orphanage paid either reduced fees or no fees.

I see. Is he listed for 1870?

GC

Afraid not, GC.  The lists for the early years are incomplete. In fact there is only one name for 1870 and one name for 1873 - no names for the two years in between.

Incidentally, I am interested in your ancestor Mackenzie. Can you tell me anything about him like his full name and his work?

Jaberu,

Many thanks for checking. Would be glad to provide more details. How can I contact you by email?

GC

Thanks, GC. Could you not post here - there may be others who will be interested.

Sure, why not? The more help I can get, the better!

This is the information that I have about him so far:

- Born in 1855, died in Hong Kong in 1942. Attended Central School under the name Chan Fook Hing and won 2 prizes, one in 1871 and another in 1874.

- As far as I know, he did not have an English first name but his surname was Mackenzie. I know this because his younger sister was named Mary Mackenzie (from grave inscription), who was born in Shanghai in 1861 and married a Eurasian named Hung Kam Ning or Henry Graham Anderson (former HK Supreme Court interpreter and grandfather of former LegCo and ExCo member Catherine Joyce Symons). Mary's Chinese name was Chan Lai Kau, according to Carl Smith's records. She was buried in St. Michael's Cemetery.

- In his professional life, Chan Fook Hing assumed the name Chan Hon Key/Honkey. He is listed in the 1907 Juror's List as manager of Ip On Co. Apparently the business involved a hotel named Ip On Hotel.

Then from 1915 to 1921, he is listed as manager of Union Trading Co., an import-export venture. He was a partner in the company with Major Samuel Macomber Churn, also a Eurasian. In 1923, he is listed as chief assistant of Banker and Co. And from 1924-26, he is listed as manager of Oriental Overseas Co.

The difficulty in finding out who his Scottish father and Chinese mother were lies in the fact that birth certificates in HK were not required by law until the 1870s.

I also have not been able to find out from family members his wedding dates (he was married twice), though I assume that a simple name search in the Marriage Registry might be able to produce something by the off chance (a bit haphazard?). I have not searched for a death certificate as yet.

The school registers for Central School were destroyed during the Japanese occupation, so that avenue is blocked. Which is why I thought he might have attended the Diocesan Orphanage prior to 1871 (now confirmed by you that he was not registered there).

He was buried in the Chinese Christian Cemetery in Diamond Hill, which presumes that he would have been baptized earlier, so perhaps a search through baptismal registers might help (however, the church where he would have been baptized remains a mystery). Do you know if that cemetery attended to Protestants only or accepted any Chinese who were baptized as Christians?

As far as I know, he was not a member of any associations, though it's possible that he might have been a member of the Chinese Club, which many Eurasian merchants who identified themselves as Chinese belonged to. Does this club allow public access to its records/registers?

As to who the original Mackenzie might have been, I have compiled quite a lot of information from online research to form a shortlist of candidates who were living in Canton/HK and Shanghai around the dates that Chan Honkey and his sister were born, and have located a few wills kept at the National Archives in London, which I will be ordering. So that remains my best hope at this stage. However, the prospects are a bit slim.

The candidates are:

Canton: - Donald William (D.W.) Mackenzie and Samuel Mackenzie (both did not leave wills in China)

Shanghai: - James, David and Robert Mackenzie of Mackenzie & Co.; - K.R. and C.D. Mackenzie of Mackenzie, Bros & Co.; and William Mackenzie (Most left wills in Shanghai).  

Any suggestions for further research or information about him that you or anyone else reading this might come across would be most appreciated.

GC

I've added Fook Hing Chan (Mackenzie) to my Geni.com "Eurasian" tree (based on "In the Web" and other books").   I have no new information, but it shows where he is in the greater "Eurasian" tree.

If you can help fill in with his wives names, that would be great.

Many thanks, GC. You have already succeeded in finding a mass of information. I shall certainly let you know of anything I come across. Meanwhile, you may wish to ponder this oddity.  The oft-quoted book "In the Web" confirms that Henry Graham Anderson was married to a Mary Mackenzie.   But in another family tree the book shows that there was a Hugh Anderson who was also married to a Mary daughter of a man named Mackenzie.  Now Henry Graham Anderson had a son named Hugh. If it is the same Hugh, it seems most odd that the father and the son were both married to Mary Mackenzie's.

Further, the Mary married to Hugh Anderson is shown to have an unnamed brother who was married twice.  Was this brother perhaps Chan Hon Key? Is there perhaps a mix up of generations?

Reviewing the dates:

Mary (nee Makenzie) - b. 1861 in Shanghai
Fook Hing Chan - b. 1855

Hugh Anderson - b. 1887

This is what "In the Web" - p 178  tree shows. 

p 167 shows:

Jaberu,

I know about this seeming oddity. There were in fact two "Hughes" - father and son. Chan Hon Key is the unnamed brother, yes. I've been in touch with Peter Hall and have given him the correct information so it will be in the 2nd edition. The original had a lot of errors in it as it had been 2nd or 3rd sourced. Through Gwulo.com, Liz Chater very kindly put me in touch with Peter, which has been great. I believe it's scheduled to come out in November.

Are you part of the "Web" as well? And if so, how so?

Hi, Annelisec.

Could you change his name to Hon Key Chan, as that was the name he was more known for? Also, I have no proof that the Chinese woman that the Mackenzie "protected" had Chan as her surname so it would be best to leave that as ???

Chan Hon Key's wives were Lam Ah Tse (b 1863 d 1899) and Tai Yuk Ching (b 1876 d 1955).

GC

You have me thoroughly confused, GC. But not to worry. It will all get clearer.

You mentioned a connection between Chan Hon Key and S.M.Churn.  In Eric Ho's history of the Welfare League he describes a meeting held on 23rd December, 1929 attended by a number of Eurasians to set up the League as a charitable society to assist destitute Eurasians.  Among those present were S.M.Churn and a man named J.McKenzie. All those who were present were members of well-known families, and their names keep cropping up in connection with the League, with the exception of McKenzie whose name drops away and he is not mentioned again.  I wonder if this was Chan Hon Key and whether he attended this first inaugural meeting on the encouragement of his partner Churn? 

Shall we add Hon Key Chan's children?  Then their descendents who visit Geni may have more information for you.

Can you set me straight on the "two Hughs".?

As to the new book, Liz told us it was due out last November, and yet nothing as yet.   ...   That is why I started the tree on Geni.  It won't detract from the second edition because it is not the genealogies that are interesting, it is the stories he tells.

Jaberu and annelisec,

My mistake. There was only one Hugh Anderson - the son, who died in 1922.

The father is Henry Graham Anderson.

The last time I emailed Peter, which was in May/June, he said he was aiming for November 2011.

Thanks for the Geni tip. I think I'll set up an account and then link to what you've posted.

GC

Jaberu,

That's an interesting suggestion. I have seen that name in Eric Ho's book and wondered as well. It's possible that Chan Hon Key might have had an English name which he used occasionally late in life. By 1929, he would have been 74 yrs old and possibly retired.

This kind of name switching occurred with Henry Graham Anderson who, up until he retired from the government in the mid to late 1890s, was known publicly as Hung Kam Ning. Not uncommon among 1st generation Eurasians who navigated between identities throughout their lives.

Perhaps someone at the Welfare League might be able to track down the full name of J. Mckenzie? If you have any tips, let me know.

GC

Peter Hall has advised that he is on the final stages of production. The charts are complete and other documents are now ready for printing. Back cover design yet to be done but shouldn't take too long and he hopes that the book proof will be with his publisher next month.  The project is taking longer than he thought, but he sounds positive things are moving in the right direction.

Sean, he hasn't forgotten you and will be in touch in due course.

Best wishes

Liz

GC, go to the last paragraph on page 15 of Eric Ho's "Tracing My Children's Lineage" , and compare it with Appendix 14 of Peter Hall's "In the Web". This confirms that the unnamed son of Mackenzie and Chan in Appendix 14 was Chan Hon Key. Unfortunately, it does not give his English proper name, if he had one.  The  names of Chan Hon Key's two wives which you have given us are also at variance with the names given by Peter Hall of Chan Yuk Ching and Soares.

Yes, as I mentioned before, the 1st edition of In The Web had a lot of errors in it because Peter had not been able to get first-hand information at the time, understandable as Peter is not closely related to my branch of the family. He told me he had always wanted people to contact him after the book's publication so as to add or correct anything (which I and a few others have since done). So I would not consider the 1st edition an accurate source on the Chan/Mackenzie branch - the updated edition, on the other hand, will be accurate.

Eric Ho's book used information that my family had passed on to him, so it is accurate.

GC

Hi Liz

Do you know if the new edition of "In the web" already released? I have recently read the 1992 version from the HK libraray and there are many mistakes in the branches of Hung/Hunt family. I wish to provide him with my info I have, how do I contact him? Thanks,

Lo

This book is now published, I received my copy this morning.  It can be purchased from

http://countyvise.tbpcontrol.co.uk/TBP.Direct/CustomerAccessControl/Home.aspx?collection=10502500

best wishes

Liz

Note from Andrew Tse:

Peter wrote: Swindon's has an account with Gardner Books who are worldwide distributors of books.  Orders for more than one book can be ordered via Swindon's.  Single books can be ordered via   www.countyvise.co.uk

If you need to contact Peter, please drop me a line.

andrew.tse@me.com

Andrew